Log in

One day I took a student from St. George, UT to Henderson, NV. I would take them down to do their 3 towered solo landings and then we would do a night return. These days it seems that the Vegas controllers are more strict or have more on their plates. On this particular night we got a squawk code from Henderson ground to be able to get into the Class B airspace. We took off and proceeded south at which point Henderson tower handed me off to Vegas Approach. I asked to pass over the numbers 25L and 25R then proceed northeast to Mormon Mesa. My request was denied and I was instructed to go east towards Hoover Dam. I was not about to do this. Not at night and with a single engine aircraft. I told the controller negative and that that wouldn't be possible considering the nature. I felt that flying a single engine plane at night east of Vegas was not safe for our flight. We argued back and forth for a while and I finally asked the controller if he preferred that I declare an emergency and do what I want. There was a long pause and the controller came on and said that I was cleared to the number 25L and 25R at Mcarran. I was elated and we continued our flight back to St. George without incident.

What would be more dangerous about flying out over Hoover Dam, than flying Northeast over Sunrise and the Muddy Mountains toward Mesquite ? I'm glad the controller finally honored your request, but if there were conflicting traffic he should have put you in holding somewhere until the traffic cleared.

Are you setting a good example for a student ? Surely every pilot should know his responsibility and ability as pilot in command, but the ATC system is certainly based on a cooperative effort by both pilots and controllers. How many other aircraft did the controller have to hold or move out of your way to honor your request ? There are usually better solutions than to argue with your friendly Air Traffic Controller who is just trying to fulfill his responsibility to keep aircraft apart.

I don't mean to be impolite, but as a retired Air Traffic Controller I know first hand there are two sides to every story. I have flown long cross country flights at night in single engine with little difficulty. Sure it is a bit different at night, but if you keep on top of the situation with an alternative plan of action it should be better than insisting that the Controller let you fly right over the top of one of the busiest terminal areas in the U.S. (9th, I believe).

Sorry I have taken so long to reply. I have been giving this alot of thought. I guess on that particular night flying out over Hoover Dam was not my cup of tea. In recent years the Las Vegas Terminal Area Controllers have gotten a reputation for treating GA aircraft with little or no respect But at the same time rolling out the red carpet if your burning jet fuel.

I guess I didn't have to be so turse with the controller, and I realize that he was just doing his job. That particular night my student and I decided together that the best and safest route of flight,for us, was to fly over the numbers 25L and 25R then fly direct to Mormon Mesa VOR. Being close to Midnight when the flight took place, few commercial carriers were coming into the airspace.

You are absolutely right and getting the point of view of a controller is valuable information to me. And in subsequent flights I have been very careful in what I say. I have made flights to LA, PHX, and SLC without incident. I believe due to the fact that where respect is given respect is received.

Thank you for your insight. I look forward to reading future posts.